Episode #37 – Dreamer vs Lee – ECW High Incident 1996
Dre and Black Cat revisit a ECW cult classic – Tommy Dreamer vs Brian Lee from High Incident 1996, stickers, tons of listener feedback, and Tommy Dreamer tempts the Black Cat with Peanut Butter Oreos.
Is that Tommy Dreamer with Danny Bonaduce? Who’s the bigger tool?
Dreamer. Bonaduce isn’t wearing a Band-Aid.
Thank God someone else hates Tommy Dreamer. His feud with Raven was unbelievably awesome, but outside that, he was shit.
Out of curiosity, if he falls to #8 on your top ten most hated list (between Test and Hardcore Holly), who is #1? My money’s on X-Pac or Erik Watts. If those two ever wrestled, the universe as we know it would collapse in on itself – though Erik’s dropkick is about the right height to hit X-Pac mid-Bronco Buster.
Tommy Dreamer is also on my crap-list. I think I enjoyed his Raven feud but can’t remember anything else he ever did that I enjoyed. I don’t know if he’d be on my top 10 – there’s a lot of guys to consider.
#1 most hated is nigel mcguinness
haha…i forgot about your hatred for nigel, but that breaks our 10 year rule!
I’m diggin’ the new opening theme song. Where does it come from?
I remember LOVING this match when I was 18 years old.
I’m amused by Dre mispronouncing “Scaffolding.”
While I still enjoy ECW’s style of wrestling, I agree with Dre that the matches looked very staged. There were a lot of spots with guys standing there while waiting to take a hit. I also agree with the counter-culture reasoning for why anyone would like ECW. I remember liking it that my brothers would watch it for like a minute and decide it looked too low budget for their taste.
I about died laughing during the “Tommy Dreamer’s nuts” segment of the podcast.
I’ve never had peanut butter oreos. By the time the next podcast rolls around I hope to have changed this. They’re never on sale though at my local Jewel.
I love it that Black Cat is overly annoyed by Dre’s pen clicking.
Dre, I believe you were thinking of Barry Gibbs who was in the Bee Gees, not Terry Gibbs. Terry Gibbs was actually a pretty good wrestler. So was Scott Casey. I saw him do a flying headscissors once before losing a match on Wrestling Challenge.
Dre I would love to hear your Top 10 hated wrestler list and the reasons for each entry. While I think Nigel Mcguinness is really good and I usually enjoy his matches, he would probably be on my list to and you probably can figure out why.
HBA – The song is the old Clash of the Champions music! I remember thinking something serious was about to go down when I heard that for the first Clash. I’m guessing it was also used for a number of car dealerships.
On a more serious note, I don’t think I ever see oreos on sale. I had the PB oreos in my hand the other day but put them down after thinking twice about the implications.
This episode rocked for two reasons: (1) the rant about Tommy Dreamer’s balls had me laughing hysterically while trying to lift weights this morning; (2) I got my name and iTunes feedback read on the show!! Thanks guys! Keep up the great work, and thanks again for the free shows.
I see we’re going to have to rant about ball shots more often. Could be our go to spot.
Got my stickers in the mail today! Awesome! Dre, the note you sent with it killed me. I am sorry to tell you that despite your words of wisdom, I will ALWAYS be thinking of Tommy Dreamer’s balls. I owe it all to you guys. Sad, but true.
As a matter fact, I may be changing my board name to “Tommy Dreamer’s Balls” in the near future. Whaddya think?
Just got back from 3 weeks holiday in California and I enjoyed this podcast on the flight back to Copenhagen. I had just debuted as a Peanut Butter Oreo consumer, and for a first timer I think I was pretty good at eating them.
The nuts part was hysterical and I shall not rest until I have managed to sneak it into a conversation somewhere. I love when you act as wrestlers and we get to hear those conversations. If I was a braver man I’d try Black Cat’s hilarious bit about the folding of Dreamer’s t-shirts on my wife, but I’m afraid I’d end up being Billy Gunn to her Butterbean.
So Uncle Soda is the first of us to try Peanut Butter Oreos. I will have to break down and get some today.
And I do not recommend asking anyone to do your laundry. I do my own almost all of the time.
I agree, never let anyone else do you laundry. Letting your wife, for example, do your laundry for you results in your clothes getting mixed in with hers. And then what have you got? Women’s socks balled up with your own.
Very good points, both. There is also the risk she might find Peanut Butter Oreo crumbs on the clothes, which must not happen.
So, I must not be the only one who takes the OSWP to the gym with me on my MP3 player. After my cardio routine and weights, I decided to hit the sauna. I am sitting there on a towel, in my gym shorts, just like any other respectable person would be, listening to your podcast. Nothing seemed too much out of the ordinary… until this guy walks in butt ass naked.. and he looked just like Randy the Ram from The Wrestler. He of course sits right next to me. I’m trying to pretend he isn’t actually there. No such luck. He stands up on the bottom ledge.. his ass in everyone’s face. He takes a water bottle and pours it on his head (just like HHH). He then shakes his head like a dog, spraying everyone with water. About this time, I shut you guys podcast off quick, and get the hell out of there before it turns into Deliverance. I am going to have to restart the OSWP… I got to the part where you were talking about Tommy’s laundry.
Oh dear lord. That is terrifying, but imagine if you were at my gym where most of the guys in my locker room our old retired guys and they did the same thing.
Brian Lee was Undertaker’s best man when Taker married Sara in 2000.
I noticed that the Undertaker had his “Brian Lee” tattoo lazer removed from his neck.
I don’t even want to verify this story, I’ll just assume it’s true because it’s awesome.
“saraaaaaah” sorry say it in zero’s undertaker immitation..oh nevermind
Ok, finally finished you guys Podcast. I would have finished earlier, but I was watching Smokey and the Bandit 2 with my uncle Walter.
Good job. And I definitely love you guys as well.
Ah, ECW- I used to watch ECW in high school. From 94 to 96 or so, it would come on about 11 PM on our public access channel. Kind of odd, but our local access channel featured wrestling every week night at 11 PM. Thursday nights were always ECW. On various night, they would show USWA, Smokey Mtn., and other smaller promotions as well, but Thurs. night was the ECW night. Now, when I was a senior in high school, Hall and Nash had just appeared on Nitro, and Austin 316 had just been born, so talking about wrestling at school wasnt as dorky as it would have been my 9th, 10th, and 11th grade years.
I remember being amazed that there was an actual wrestling show on tv with profanity, half naked women, tables, fire, barbed wire, etc. Me and my buddies would come to school every Fri. our senior year talking about the crazy shit we had seen on ECW the night before. We had never seen anything like it.
But as I got older, I cared less for that style of wrestling (much like Dre mentioned). I still enjoy the high impact style and lucha libre style they sometimes showcased, but have no use as an adult for watching matches that involve tables, chairs, barbed wire, blood, etc. I look back and am not entertained by old ECW tapes. But I do look back on those days as being exciting. Especially when I had aisle seats for an ECW show back in 99 in Atlanta.
I like Smokey and the Bandit Part 2 more than Extreme Championship Wrestling.
I am jealous at the amount of wrestling you had available to you as a child. We just had WWF/WCW in the mid-90s and the little ECW and Japan I was able to trade for.
ECW was awesome at the time. The shows we went to were a blast but it does seems like most people grew out of their love for the hardcore ECW style, but it’s hard not to recognize the impact it had on the industry. I suppose I owe my love for puro and lucha to ECW, so I can’t speak too badly of them.
Indeed Black Cat. I will say, however, that during 94-96, I wasn’t a huge fan of Smokey Mtn. or USWA. To me it looked a bit backwoods and low budget, but NOW… looking back, I wish Id have taped some of the episodes. You cant find alot of Smokey Mtn and USWA on YouTube (not full episodes anyhow).
I did enjoy ECW though as a high school kid, because during the mid 90s, WWF was going through a horrible phase (diclaimer- not as horrible as the modern PG era, however), where its roster was filled with jabronis like Aldo Montoya, Man Mountain Rock, Mantaur, Duke the Dumpster Droese, The New Rockers, etc. I thought even back then how stupid these characters were.
I don’t mind the PG era that much. There’s some good wrestling if you let yourself find it (Superstards, Smackdown).
I need to watch USWA. I actually don’t think I’ve seen any.
Regardless of what one might think of what it lead to I think ECW deserves credit for being able to make such an impact on the rest of the business from a bingo hall in Philadelphia.
But for every year that passes the ECW quality vs weak WWF/WCW scale seems to tip further away from the ECW side. The feeling of watching something new and fresh made it exciting, but when that ingredient is removed the remains don’t hold up that well. I feel the same way about the grunge wave by the way.
I was a dedicated follower of ECW in 95-96 and like Dre I got my monthly tapes sent to me. My favourites were The Public Enemy. There is good stuff of course but even back then I remember thinking I didn’t like it much as I WANTED to like it. I thought it was cool and loved the outlaw spirit of it but was wondering if I was missing something since I was always psyched for the next batch of tapes, but often found my mind drifting while I was watching them. Their hype and promos hold up to this day in my opinion but that was their biggest asset.
I think it would be hard for a group to do the same thing today, in spite of the possibilities that come with cheap and fast online distribution of content. For me, a big part of it was the mystique, and when it took a bigger effort to follow it, it made me more loyal than I would be today. So ECW might have been the last of its’ breed, and today’s fans will have to settle for being annoyed with us older fans saying “You need to have been there to understand” 🙂
Uncle Soda – I think you’re the first person who’ve I actually heard say they were a fan of Public Enemy. I actually remember first really getting to know them in WCW when they were probably a shadow of their former selves. Admittedly they did do a good promo.
The Public Enemy and WrestleMania IV are the 2 black sheeps that I love. I looked up ECW because I wanted to see what the Sabu fuzz was all about, since the magazines were going crazy about him. TPE opened the first episode I saw and WMIV was my first PPV so it might be down to first impressions. People seem to be warming up to WMIV though so I’m afraid I’ll loose some controversy points on that account soon.
I never saw TPE’s WCW work though and it sounds like it was there they lost their fans.
My favorite thing The Public Enemy did in WCW was the commercials for WCW t-shirts. They did a parody of “In Living Color’s” Homeboy Shopping Network, where it looked like they were selling stolen WCW tshirts out of the back of a stolen truck.
I like to imagine Doug Dillanger was put on the case to find out who stole all of the neon WCW shirts.
Blackcat, unfortunately I don’t have any issues of WWF the Magazine to send you. My grandmother threw them out long ago but the memories of reading about Tugboat and The Big Bossman will stay with me forever. I will try to come up with something so you can give them the respect they are due. Just promise that if I send you a couple you have to do a two or three hour podcast concentrating on their awesomeness.
Don’t forget this is a two man podcast. If you send Black Cat magazines, you need to send Dre cash.
cash meaning tapes of nigel mcguinness matches.
I’ve got some old PWI mags I hope to go through, so don’t worry about it! I do remember loving the first few years of the WWF magazine. The current version I see on the newsstands just doesn’t seem nearly as cool.
I came into ECW so late, that I really kinda missed all the glory of it, what can be found, I guess. Since the Attitude Era of WWF and the open pocketbook of Ted Turner for WCW ran rampant over the wrestling I saw, ECW reminded me of older days when I’d see wrestling magazines with Abdullah the Butcher or Terry Funk, drenched in blood, maybe amidst barbed wire ropes and flaming pots at intervals. It scared me, yet mystified me.
Then I actually saw ECW. Yes, a lot of the wrestling wasn’t really there. Brawling, big bumps, multiple interferences and no rules to be seen, but the crowd ate it up and chanted for more every time. THAT was hard to ignore. It was infectious and made me think that this was great stuff being done. And if WWF was utilizing its formula for its programming, something had to be good about it.
Now, I’m much more enamored with older style wrestling. Styles and matchwork reminiscent of pre-’85 WWF dominion. I want more technical wrestling, more match storytelling, slow-building yet long burning feuds that tell a brilliant story and really give me solid entertainment.
No, I’m not holding my breath, either.
Well, what I appreciated about ECW was that they had the hardcore style but also had the great emotional stories but on a much more mature level that we probably wanted as 20 somethings at the time.
And I agree that ECW reminded me a lot of the old pictures I used to see of Abby and Carlos Colon in PWI.
Yeah, WWE’s stories were still cartoony and absurd at the time before adapting ECW’s style. I also enjoyed ECW’s emotional stories. Coming onto it late left me playing a lot of catch up.
Would anyone else like to see Danny Bonaduce tossed off a balcony through three stacked tables?
I support Danny Bonaduce throwing Charlie Sheen off the balcony through 15 stacked tables.
I look around in the Old School classroom and see hands raised. Everybody wants to ask about the Danny Bonaduce story.
No story, just the fact that Danny Bonaduce is a douchebag. And the Black Cat found a picture of Tommy Dreamer hanging out with Bonaduce (see picture at the top of this page). So it makes me wonder, if I were walking on top of a building and there were three tables stacked up next to the building, and I also saw Tommy Dreamer and Danny Bonaduce on that roof, who would I rather push off that said roof through the three stacked tables???
Black Cat,
PG Era is atrocious. Yes, there is some good “wrestling”, I will give you that, but PG sucks balls, dude. Not because it is “PG” per se, because the 80s were PG as well, and they rocked. It’s just that none of the wrestlers have any charisma. Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, John Morrison, Kofi Kingston.. these guys can wrestle, sure, but they have not one bit of charisma or mic skills to speak of.
Even the top WWE guys, like Cena, are weak compared to the Rock and Austin. The Rock’s recent apperance on RAW made Cena, Orton, and Miz look like a bunch of jobbers in comparison.
Back in the day, wrestlers had charisma and were larger than life. These current WWE stars are a bunch of duds… ham and eggers at best. They all wear basically the same ring attire (black trunks and boots). They all come to the ring to some BS nu metal song of the week instead of real wrestling entrance themes (ie. Real American, Rocks theme, Austins theme).
PG era is bullcrap, and so is TNA actually.. OLD SKOOL FOREVER, SON..
(I type this reply as I watch Smackdown from last night)
I will almost completely agree that PG era is atrocious. There are a few things that keep me into the modern product – some of the guys from old days who seem to still have the old mentalities, the few young guys who seem to have a clue, and the fact that I’m addicted to pro wrestling and enjoy watching awful, awful wrestling for whatever reason. Most of the wrestling I’ve enjoyed from the last few years has been from Japan or US indies, excepting a less than a handful of WWE matches and really *no* TNA, though I have watched it, because, like I said, I enjoy awful wrestling. DVR has done wonders for modern wrestling consumption. I would have a hard time saying that the Michaels/Undertaker matches from the last two WMs were crap. They were incredibly booked storylines and matches, but also a sad reminder of how shitty nearly all of the modern guys are now. CM Punk is an awesome throwback to guys of yesteryear who worked hard and dedicated themselves to their characters. And you shut yo mouth about my boy Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson. 😉
But, yes, most of it is awful.
Oh, and Chris Jericho has been incredible the last few years. I was reminded of that while reading his first book the last couple of days.
Black Cat, I think Danielson is a tremendous wrestler.. one of the best in-ring talents WWE has. My only gripe with him (as with the others in this new generation), is that he lacks any real charisma. Besides his in-ring ability, why would we as fans care about him? What compelling storylines is Danielson part of? What sort of emotion and drama surround his match ups on RAW? None…
Here are my primary gripes with the new era of WWE (I wont even start on TNA, although I did enjoy TNA back in 2006 and 2007).
1) Too many title reigns. Ok, take John Cena or Triple HHH.. those guys have had more title reigns than Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Randy Savage, Bob Backlund, and Bruno Sammartino combined. Now, something is really wrong with that picture, right? Title changes mean nothing anymore. They change so quickly, and there are so many reigns per wreslter, that who cares if Cena wins for title for the 28th time at WM vs. The Miz.
2) No characters. All these guys basically go by their legal name. They all have the same short, cropped haircut. They all wear basically the same trunks. They all have good, tanned bodies (minus Husky Harris). They all look like a bunch of boring tools that hang out at Golds Gym. No charisma. No interesting gimmicks. No FUN gimmicks. These guys have no mic skills, and all take themselves too damn seriously. Theyre no fun to watch.
3) No cool theme songs. These guys all come to the ring to some lame ass nu-metal song from some tool band using WWE to help sell their shitty ass cds. I couldnt tell you one theme song from another anymore. I mean, when you heard Real American, or Sexy Boy, or the theme from Space Odyssey 2002, or Pomp and Circumstance… you KNEW who was coming to the ring.. and it was exciting. Now… well, its just some lame ass Disturbed or Linkin Park song ..zzzzzz..
I could go on to list many more things, but these are just a few things that get my goat… and you can tell how lame wrestling is now. Go back to the 80s or especially late 90s.. watch an old episode of RAW.. the fans all had signs.. they all went nutso when the Rock or Stone Cold, or DX came out to the ring.. now the crowd appears comatose half the time. The biggest pops of the year so far have been for Diesel, Booker T, Jerry Lawler, The Rock, and HHH.. what does this tell you?>
And I agree on the title reigns, in all seriousness this is possible the biggest problem.
So a few things –
1 – Husky Harris rules. I cannot express to you how pissed I was when I read he was sent to FCW to lost weight.
2 – Regarding entrance music – this is possibly the biggest problem today. Hire Jimmy Har or something and please get rid of the nu-metal.
3 – While Danielson is no Rock, he did a much better job on the mic in ROH than he’s done in WWE.
4 – So, we both agree stuff now sucks, I’m curious if there’s anything now that you like.
5 – Zach Ryder is another new guy that I find totally awesome that reeks of old school annoying heel that doesn’t take himself too seriously.
Well, Black Cat… what do I like today?
Well, not much.. I feel like WWE today is geared toward kids with short attention spans, and no real knowledge or appreciation of WWE history.
Anytime I mention today’s WWE product to my old school friends who I used to watch NITRO and RAW with back in the 90s, they usually reply with something like, “you still watch that shit.. I cant fucking stand WWE anymore..”, or “ever since they got rid of the Rock and Stone Cold I dont even bother watching that bullshit anymore”. Sad, but true.
As much as I enjoy my old school, even HHH and Undertaker can’t seem to get the crowd as excited as I thought they might. Last Monday on RAW, during HHH’s promo (right before he beat Sheamus’ ass for no apparent reason), the crowd was pretty indifferent, and quite… well.. quiet, really.
Even the Rock’s promo last Monday seemed to get a more lukewarm response than he did 2 weeks prior.
Why is this? Well, I ll tell ya… the 90s wrestling crowd, for the most part, is gone. They dont watch wrestling anymore. Sure, guys like us still watch it, but we are the die-hard fans. Also, I think the Rock, HHH, and Undertaker have already done pretty much everything, and everyone knows theyre all on their way out the door..
Ok.. so let me try to think of a few things I do like about todays WWE…
ok..
1) Daniel Bryan- his in-ring talent actually makes up for the fact that his character/gimmick is floundering, and also despite the fact he hasnt been in any meaningful angles (IMO, at least). However, I love watching his matches. He has so much skill and natural ability, it makes up for his total lack of charisma, gimmick, and meaningful angles.
2) Sin Cara (aka Mistico). Ok, sure he hasnt started wrestling yet, but if his matches in WWE are going to be anything like his matches in Mexico, then we are ALL in for a treat. Id love to see him and Daniel Bryan work a program. I just hope Vince lets him do his thing, and doesnt try to make him change his style.
3) I like the fact Jerry Lawler is wrestling again. Its sad, but its so nice to see a guy who has charisma and can get a huge pop these days.. even if he is 60.
But lets take a look at more things that suck instead..
1) Jim Ross is gone… replaced by the biggest, most annoying pissant ever.. Michael Cole. I hate Cole. But not in the good way.. I dont just hate his character.. I hate seeing him on tv, period. Jim Ross gave matches an extra something… and that something is now missing.
2) Lawler as a color commentator. While I enjoy his current program with Miz, I miss the old Lawler. Dude was hilarious on the mic back in the 90s as a color man. But now his commentary is quite bland.
3) The exit of HBK. HBK leaving was truly the end of an era. Michaels exit just drove home the point that its a new era. And not a good one..
4) Vince where are you? Like Jim Ross, Vince was a staple of Monday Night Raw. Where has the boss gone? Vince is the MAN.. I miss him on tv.
more later..
– I suspect the current PG product could be slightly better if they’d just stay focused and build longer stories much like the 87-90 era PG product. The other difference in PG eras is the larger than life musclebound guys that can’t exist anymore in our post-steriod world. The logical side of me certainly supports keeping the guys healthy, but damn if those big ass dudes didn’t make for some impressive TV when we were kids.
– I honestly don’t know if Daniel Bryan is made for the WWF Universe. I love the guy and hope he makes a million bucks but just can’t imagine him excelling. Punk is the rare indie guy with amazing charisma that crossover.
– I have high hopes for Mystico, but that ball could be easily dropped.
– Speaking of Michaels leaving, once Taker and HHH are gone, I am terrified to what will happen when there’s no one from pre-2000 around to carry these clueless (not so anymore) young guys.
Regarding Danielson/Daniel Bryan’s charisma, or lack thereof, I must say that his character in WWE blows chunks. However, I have seen a little bit of his heel character from ROH, and he was an awesome heel! Totally blew me away at what a prick he could be. “I have ’til 5!!” I think if the WWE actually gave him a chance to be something other than the bland, white-meat babyface, he could be 100 times more over than what he is now. That being said, even though WWE has given him a lousy character, at least they let him win a lot on TV and haven’t jobbed him out like they did Low-Ki/Kaval.
I just wanted to let you know that Tommy Dreamer married Beulah McGillicutty and they have twin daughters. Also Shane Douglas invited Kurt Angle to the High Incident show.
I did not know that about Shane Douglas. I was sadly informed of the Beulah and their children at the awful TNA PPV they attended a few months back.
Living on the west coast, I had ‘extremely’ limited exposure to ECW (no pun intended). Fortunatly for me, I had a friend with an illegal cable box. Don’t judge, everyone who was a wrestling fan back in the day had one or knew someone that had one. It ‘exposed’ me to Skinimax (again no pun intended), Taxi Driver, and most impotantly-wrestling ppv’s. With that said, my top 3 most memorable ECW moments are as follows:
1) Bubba Ray Dudley calling a female audience member a name that suggested she was a woman of ill repute and not-so subtly and implying that she taught her daughter-let’s just say-the “tricks of the trade”. On paper, maybe not that great. But watching it live, I was convinced the Dudleys were going to start a riot in the peaceful community of south Philadelphia
2) Tazz and Bam Bam Bigelow crashing through the ring. A truly “holy shit” moment that would later be copied by WWE a couple more times but somehow felt empty and disingenuous.
3) Billy Corgan singing the national anthem in the middle of the ring, only to be interrupted by Steve Corino who would cut a promo on the Pumpkin leader calling him a bald egotist. The climax, of course, resulted in Corgan soaking in the shit-talking before breaking his acoustic guitar over Corino’s dome Jeff Jarrett style.
Paul Heyman had a point when he dubbed ECW the “Nirvana of pro-wrestling”. It was different. It was counter-culture. It was a breath of fresh-air. But just like I can’t stomach “Smells like Teen Spirit” or “Come as You Are” anymore, the same too can I no longer watch certain ECW matches and more importantly angles without feeling somewhat queesy.
In closing, I couldn’t help but appreciate Dre’s humorous Ric Flair impression wherein he lists all the citys. It reminded me of the infamous Howard Dean debacle. What a different world we might be living in if Dean followed up his meniacal rant with a “WOOOO” instead of a “YEEEAWW”. Which also gets me thinking, what if The Kings Speech was based on a Dusty Rhodes promo? Food for thought (…again no pun intended)
– Bubba Ray’s ECW promos were one of my guilty pleasures back in the day. Lewdly awesome.
– Taz (No extra Z, son) and Bam Bam was AWESOME.
– I remember Billy doing a few spots with ECW, but not that one with Corino (who is actually one of my current favorite guys – who couldn’t love a wrestler who’s heel move is to stick his thumb up your butt?)
– On especially angsty days I will on occasion enjoy grunge music from yesteryear – a lot like how I enjoy my ECW consumption.
– I have not yet seen The King’s Speech so I will have to get back to you on that one.
Black Cat, I agree with your opinions about today’s wrestling but I feel that the biggest problems are as follows.
1. Too many WWE “Superstars”- The roster seems impossibly large. This would not be a problem if some of the members were sent out as “Jobbers” but they are each given at least some time albeit sporadically to get over. This leads to more talking than is necessary and creates a product that is really hard to follow. Gone are the days when only established guys were given the chance to talk and create hype for either their character or the match they were trying to sell. Now everybody talks, Cena comes out and wrestles last and we all suffer for it.
2. No competition- Not to besmirch Standard Oil or Ma Bell but in the history of capitalism the consumer has never fared well when a monopoly is in place. While the WCW was in retrospect never equipped to beat the WWF long term, its presence definitely created a much better show than the current product they are putting out. The emergence of the WCW made the WWF scrap Doink, Yokozuna and the Repo Man and create new stars while simultaneously giving new breath to old characters that had drawn already but achieved new success working alongside The Rock and Stone Cold. I am not calling for a return to the Attitude era as it was played out but I don’t buy the argument there is simple no one to take the torch and carry on. We should be in a time of great Wrestling as the children of the attitude and prior eras ascend to the top spots.
3. The Absence of fat guys- Are you sure that during this obesity epidemic where I see at least two people daily who would literally eat Abdullah the Butcher or John Tenuta that there are no really fat guys out there in good enough shape to butt splash or body slam some people? I believe that they are there and that they are ready to make their presence felt. Lets put America to work and give some fat guys a chance. I think an angle with the fat guy who runs ain’t it cool news as a jaded wrestling smark would go over big time and I hope Vince and his team of writers are smart enough to see it.
Anyway as always love the site and keep up the great work.
i for one was a tommy dreamer mark along with big daddy because he never won anything..ever..lol. he was always losing or being beaten up. but got back up. not to say hes a wrestling genius but well u know kids are dumb. that being said best ecw memory by far is rick rude in ecw. he once as he was leaving ring side took a valet(cant remember if it was beaulah or francine) flipped her upside down and was munching her ass on his way to the back….such class..lol
I was a pretty big Tommy Dream Mark back in the day. Not that he was a great wrestler, but there is something I liked. It might be because I saw him before ECW and he felt like everything was wrong with wrestling. He was stiff in the ring and how very little personality. In ECW he had the chance to tell interesting stories. He was the wish fulfillment for the ECW fan. He was just one of the ECW crowd in the ring. He took his limited skill set and became a compelling wrestler.
I will say that Tommy Dream was the first Face Anti-Hero in pro-wrestling. He was not a Heel that turned into a Face, filling the role of a Tweener. He was the first Face that acted like the rules just got in the ways of Justice. That was the story of the Tommy Dreamer v. Raven. He was doing this when the best Anti-Hero of all time was still the Ringmaster.