#54 – L. Kid v Razor Ramon, Monday Night Raw, May 17, 1993

We look back at a historical moment in the early days of Monday Night Raw when the “kid” became a man and discuss our memories of Sean Waltman and Scott Hall.

This episode has been archived in the Season 2 digital box set available for $9.99 at the OSWP Merch Store!


  1. Eric Darsie says:

    Awesome show, teaming up with an awesome match, months before I started Kindergarten. Thanks for the show, dude (well, shouldn’t it be dudes?)!

    I was super happy to come home after a day of filling shelves with Coke products seeing this lovely gem ready to be listened to on my computer. So I hollered (Big Poppa Pump reference) and my iPod was my hook-up, so episode 54 soon became a item to listen to on it. I went to my porch at my apartment, went outside on a cold October afternoon in Minnesota, put my body onto my hammock, and listened to this golden memory from the days I remember telling my pre-school teachers to write down in a journal for my Mother about how much I was similar to Shawn Michaels.

    Thanks guys!

    • Black Cat says:

      KINDERGARTEN? Damn we’re old.

      Did you ever get sent home from pre-school for super kicking other kids?

      • Eric Darsie says:

        No, but during recess I always beat people up with whatever new moves I saw on WWF Raw!

        Also, I joined the wrestling team in 2nd and 3rd grade, being greatly disappointed that it wasn’t the same wrestling I saw on TV every Monday night. But in turn, whenever one of my friends would bend down and tie his shoe, I’d slap on the Perfect Plex and hit it rather perfectly! 🙂

    • Dre says:

      I love all Coke-Cola products.

      • Eric Darsie says:

        Is that why the commercial of Dusty Rhodes is put in every so often on the shows plugging Mello Yello? Mello is my favorite Coke drink!

        • Black Cat says:

          I believe I’ve only used it once, thank you. I think another old school podcast uses it quite often.

    • Disco Stu says:

      Disco Stu needs a free case of coke zero

  2. I had temporarily checked out of wrestling by this match. I think I was out by the end of ’92. I have gone back and watched all the Raws from ’93 and ’94 so I feel like I’m pretty caught up on this era.

    I was definitely watching Beavis and Butthead, the NBA and Major League Baseball during this time. MTV was playing rock n roll videos all the time so that was on a lot. Married with Children and Saturday Night Live were typically on in my bedroom as well. I was playing a lot of Sega, Mortal Kombat and sports games were big in my house. I was realizing I sucked at baseball and sports in general and I was about 3 years away from getting my drivers license so I spent a lot of time indoors watching TV.

    Chris Von Erich was the youngest Von Erich. There were no Jackie’s. I’m sure going back and fixing the audio is at the top of your to-do-list.

    Dre, thanks again for the “I come in, business goes up…” reference. That will ALWAYS be funny.

    The LOVED the Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valiant when I first saw him, which I believe was him vs. Paul Jones on a Starcade card. He had so much energy I couldn’t help but think he was awesome.

    That part at the end that sounded like it came from a porno, where was that from?

  3. Charles the Wordsmyth Jones says:

    Great show as usual guys.

    Ill never forget getting put on punishment for 2 weeks for throwing a toothpick at my moms after she said “even the world champion has to eat the vegetables.” screw that.

    Ill never hide my ignorance when it comes to the WCW days but your podcast tonight brings up a myriad of questions regarding Scott Hall and all of those NWO days ( when there were NWO red, White, black or whatever) also… what the NWO guys were like backstage because from a few Shoot videos ive seen (NASh and Hall and Cornett) those guys were real jerks off camera. ALways drunk and fighting, etc. WHo better to teach me then the two gurus, Dre and the Black Cat.

    I dont mind updating the mother in law situation with a short anecdote. When i was a kid, I was watching a match with I believe the Hart Foundation or LOD vs Demolition. Demolition was Heel by then and had adopted a third member Crush ( follow me on this) so They were fighting for the straps and it essentially turned into a 3 vs 2 match because one of the Demo members was always under the ring hiding. Eventually Smash was pulled from under the ring and BOy was his face red when he realized the gig was up. This directly translates to the events at my mother in laws. As i stood behind her car, camera and stickers in hand, the mother in law comes out like The Rockers in their prime with a bucket of water in tow. I knew then what Smash felt like. It was a clear face turn by the wife who had moments earlier warned the mother in law of my pending plans. The escape was the stuff of legend, similar to Rick Rude evading the just pummeled warrior after “winning” the IC title with the help of a classic Bobby the Brain leg hold. Needless to say, my son and I are working on a new plan and this feud will not end until the sticker is placed and I am donned the new SP Champ of the world (SP= Sticker Placer)

    Whats the mother in law gonna do when The wordsmyth and this son run wild on her!

  4. David O'Nan says:

    Hey guys, I’ve been watching some bootleg Memphis Wrestling from the early 80’s. There is so much Jimmy Valiant that it’s insane. I believe he doesn’t take more than 2 seconds where he’s not on offense. His offense consists of dancing, throwing guys into the rope and giving a sloppy elbow to the chest, and immediately following that up with a running elbow to the chest while the opponent is on the mat. Between 80 and 81 he turned heel, face, and heel again within 10 months. He was called Handsome Jimmy Valiant and looked slightly less shaggy than the Boogie Woogie Man persona. He seemed like he had his share of cocaine & whiskey and would not shut up at any point while in the ring or out of the ring. He would not stop dancing while getting beat up or beating someone up. He had a feud with Koko Ware for the Memphis tv title (which was an actual shitty looking television instead of a belt) This belt lasted about 3 weeks in which Jimmy Valiant would come out being wacky and then decided to throw down the tv and break it 2 weeks in a row.

    • Dre says:

      I want to learn more about this Memphis TV championship being an actual TV.

      • David O'Nan says:

        I never saw a physical belt. And remember this tv was a tv from 1980. With knobs and probably no remote. Here’s a youtube link
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUXy5b3xQo (spoiler alert: segment ends with the funky Memphis porn music)

        • David O'Nan (also known as davetro223) says:

          To avoid any confusion with David Lo Pan i’ll use my Awesome 80’s podcast commenter username. Davetro223 I believe is what I use there.

        • Black Cat says:

          I think this might be a future podcast. Seriously, that is pro wrestling and it is awesome.

  5. David Lo Pan says:

    Its me, its me, its D-L-P. Thought I was gone but I do buisness like Hellwig: wait for the surprise comeback and then it’s squash match time. Except unlike Hellwig, instead of wasting my time with name rights, steroids, and republican ideals, I’ve instead wasted it with local beer, NFL gambling, and women with low standards. Quiz: 2 of 3 worked out well. Control Variable: LOW standards.

    I’m a couple years younger than you guys so as a kid I was still kinda all in on wrestling in 93. I also *loved* NBA at that time and was way into my Barkley-led Suns taking on your Jordan-led Bulls (that motherfucker John Paxon still haunts my dreams!). Also, like you, I watched 90210. That is until Dylan’s girlfriend blew up in a limo. It was at that point I was just thankful that wrestling would never be that hard-up for a storyline.

    I digress. I remember this match clearly cause it was the 1st “Raw moment” as opposed to its predecessor “Primetime Wrestling” where Reverend Slick argued with Bobby Heenan about Okerland’s 1-900 rumorline, while Hacksaw Jim Duggan faced Tanaka from Orient Express in the main event.

    From that 1st Raw moment on I WAS HOOKED!!! . . . . .Until 7 months later when Lex Lugar wrestled Damien Demento in the main event. At which point I cashed in my wrestling chips for a couple years.

    And while we’re at it, please.god.please. please know that we love the Steiners because undoubtedly and unequivocally their intelligence level makes us feel better. Only reason. They are “Eugene-stupid”.

    But now for the buisness. Dre, don’t think I’m just going to let you call me out without any repercussions. I challenge you to a first ever “Good Housekeeping Scaffold Match”. That’s right, you bring the pots and pans…..I’ll bring the pain!!! (Also please bring a scaffold cause I don’t have one).

    • Dre says:

      I will sign the contract for the good house keeping scaffold match only if you pass a wellness test.

    • Black Cat says:

      – I hated the Suns. I remember being pissed when he was traded from the Sixers. Remember the spitting “foam” incident?

      – 90s WWF Lex Luger killed interested for a lot of people

      – There’s NO WAY you can say the mental capacity of the Steiner Brother’s was as bad as Eugene. He bordered on (character wise) legitimately mentally retarded. Just because Rick needed JRs help getting ready for his date with Woman doesn’t mean he was that incapacitated.

      • David Lo Pan says:

        I don’t intend to make light of people with legitimate disabilities and perhaps I mispoke when I called the Steiners “Eugene-dumb”. . . So allow me to rephrase:

        The Steiners are mouth-breathing knuckledraggers. They are God’s cruel joke. They are the forgotten children of evolution, and escapees of natural selection. They are fence post dumb.

        I hope this clears up any confusion.

  6. Dr Dead Reckoning says:

    A question for Dre. Is Bill Apner somehow connected to esteemed deditor of wrestling magazines Bill Apter? Is he riends with Daand Earl Heffner?

    I jest of course, we are none of us without our peculiarities. I myself spent years referring to Busty Rhodes, but that was ased more on visual evidence than a verbal tick

    (apologies to Black Cat who has already heard that via twitter)

    Another superb show chaps. Heaping praise on the podcast is almost redundant at this point, the consistently high level is routine.

    Like so many other followers, I too pretty much checked ot of wrestling by the time of this match. I was a year into unversity and if you thought being into pro wrestling in high school was bad, try doing it a college ina pre NWO era. It was less embarrasing to buy a porn mag than PWI.

    Speaking of which (PWI, not porn), how much did I love the Apter mags?? The Apner ones were good too but The Wrestler, Inside Wrestling and the mighty PWI were to me what the scriptures are to religious nutjobs. The high point of the year was the PWI 500 – a good 300 of whom I had never seen and at least 200 I had never heard of.

    My greatest ever Christmas present was the year I persuaded Mama Reckoning to acquire an international money order so i could but selected copies of old PWI’s from the States. No paypal for us back then and an 8-10 week delivery time. Easily the longest 8-10 weeks of my young life. I still occasionally pick up a PWI but since kayfabe went the way of the dodo, it just doesn’t feel the same.

    I am delighted that I will soon not be the only person with a Flairchop sticker on their car, but I vaguely recall the promise of a reward of some description for the first person. Of course, your fine podcast is reward enough and the UK is a long way to send something but would it sweeten the deal if I told you that I have a second sticker on my my main work folder – the one I carry to meetings and so on. As the most faceless of middle management in a public sector organisation, this usually goes unnoticed, but I was recently called to a meeting with the Finance Director and CEO where the latter queried the sticker and then quizzed me on it (and my professionalism for having it on display) for a good few minutes. I fought the good fight chaps, I may even have bought you a new listener!

    Keep up the good work

    Dr DR

    • Dre says:

      Wow, bringing an old school wrestling podcast sticker into a corporate workplace may be more hardcore than the wife’s car.

    • Black Cat says:

      – BUSTY RHODES cracks me up.

      – The PWI 500 was never as intriguing to me as the Super Card issue in April/May or the Year End Awards issue, probably because they broke up the gold ink.

      – Let me check with the Awards Department on that sticker contest.

  7. Dr Dead Reckoning says:

    Oh how embarrasing. I mock Dre and my post is full of typos.

    Thats Karma myfriends (and a shitty Toshiba laptop with a crap keyboard)

    I meant esteemed editor Bill Apter, and Dave and Earl Heffner

    I will wear the smock of shame for a week as penance

  8. Charles the Wordsmyth Jones says:


    way too Ironic that you guys aired the Razor Ramon piece and now I read this about he and his son on TMZ. The muscle mass is gone but obviously the ways of the Oustiders continues.

    • Black Cat says:

      I thought the same thing when I saw this advertised. I haven’t seen it but heard good things.

      The phrase “ways of the outsiders” makes me want to break out my copy of Forest Whitaker’s Ghost Dog and refresh myself on the ways of the samurai.

  9. Rusty Brooks.. says:

    Wrestling in 1993 sucked balls. I was 16 in 1993, and my objectives at the time were trying to get a car, trying to mack the bitches and hoes, and chillin with my homies. WWF was dumb as shit in 93… Doink, Bastion Booger, Sparky Plugg Holly, Duke the Dumpster Droese..

    However, compared to 2011… WWF in 1993 was fucking solid ass gold!!!! I’d rather see Bastion Booger fart and eat turkey wings than another match between Miz and Cena.

    And whats up with all the skin tight jeans and fanny packs in that photo of the Kliq you got posted. They should call themselves the Clit that way they are dressed.

  10. Quarex says:

    In 1993, I was watching Headbanger’s Ball, The Simpsons, Beavis & Butt-head, Liquid Television, and that was probably it except for whatever I could find on before I went to school in the morning (so, Tiny Toon Adventures or GIGANTOR or uhhhhhhhhhh). I basically watched wrestling for roughly four months around the time of Hogan-Warrior at Wrestlemania VI, and I have no idea what got me into or out of it. Perhaps “Black Cat” Jook Williams and his friends, the Delinquent Children Who Acted Out Wrestling At Lunchtime Recess, were to blame.

    Wow, I remember X-Pac’s return to the WWE, because that was the first episode of RAW I watched, as Wrestlemania Tyson was my re-introduction to wrestling. Nice. I was like “oh, good, the Kid is back, what?”

    Chicago Lake Liquors still exists, though you probably know and this is probably where you got the promo. But the first thing I saw when I clicked the watch-commercials on their webpage was a Jesse Ventura advertisement. They are in South Minneapolis, which in my opinion is not where Chicago Lake Liquors should be.